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Atlanta Elects a NEW MAYOR in 33 Days -Candidate Sites Added
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Christian Michael



Joined: 18 Mar 2003
Posts: 5136

PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turner wrote:
Christian find something that demonstrates Mary's fiscal responsibility.

After that you are going to have to explain why she hasn't employed it in the last 8 years. I have no reason to like one candidate over the other but nobody can offer anything of substance for Lisa or Mary. I've tried.

What are Lisa's plans to generate Revenue? What are Mary's?

What experience do they have dealing with the State?


We have a fundemental disagreement here in that I am not looking for a mayor who can generate revenue (cause I know the only place the government gets it is from the citizens) but the one who can CUT COSTS.


There are things I don't like about Norwood and I have not endorsed anybody. I can just assure you I will NOT vote for the candidate that thinks the only way to balance the budget is to raise my taxes. CUT SPENDING. Norwood is the only one I have seen that seems to get that.


And, BTW, as I was looking through the council minutes looking for the voting record for the closing times and stumbled upon this

"03R1964( 7) A Resolution by Councilmember Mary Norwood establishing a Technical Advisory Committee for the purpose of assisting the City in reviewing the Consent Decree and related improvements and to assure that said improvements are accomplished in a cost-effective, timely and quality manner; and for other purposes. (Held 11/10/03)"

Here -> http://apps.atlantaga.gov/CITYCOUNCIL/2004/CA022304.htm

Now I just randomly found your example of her demonstrating fiscal responsibility and then employing her position on the city council to take action. Thats what Atlanta needs - not higher taxes.


And, for the record, she was dissappointed that the council voted to have the bars close at 2:30am. She wanted 2am. So, she fails that test.

Do you have any examples of any of the other candidates demonstrating fiscal responsibility? Or are you just arguing the negative? BTW, raising taxes to spend more is NOT fiscal responsibility.
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Turner



Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 2103
Location: Atlanta

PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Disappointed in the vote but how did she vote on the Bar Hours? I am pretty sure that was a unanimous decision.

Establishing a Committee isn't exactly what I was looking for but I applaud the effort.

Revenues, your taxes, have decreased steadily every year since Shirley took office. So much so that the inflation adjusted amount that we are generating from Property taxes, which represent 75% of the general fund, are exactly the same as 2001. <EDIT( Had the council been Fiscally responsible they would have left taxes alone and we would have generated the revenue we need now just to keep the fire department open. See what I'm gettin at)>

However, our population has increased by 25% in the same time frame. That means that our variable expenses, such as Fire, Police, Govt etc have increased by at least that amount.

Tell me how you cover the increase in expenses without either:

A) Raising Taxes

or

B) Generating additional revenue


Nobody wants to pay taxes but you can't have both. You and Mary think exaclty the same, which I understand, but it's not practical or fiscally responsible.


From Stephanie's article:

--As mentioned above, he went to his fellow legislators to acquire $500 million in low interest loans using the State’s AAA bond rating for the City of Atlanta’s water system. That saved the city millions in interest payments.



--He co-authored and passed legislation aimed at code enforcement and cracking down on crime caused by irresponsible bars that function as magnets for crime, increasing penalties for violations, in order to clean up neighborhoods and make the community safer.



--He secured a property tax freeze for low income seniors, cutting seniors’ property taxes and increasing the homestead exemption to $40,000.



--He successfully worked to pass a measure doubling the homestead exemption for all Atlanta homeowners to encourage more home ownership and to help prevent longtime homeowners from being forced out of their homes due to higher property assessments as their neighborhoods improved.



--He sponsored the bill that provided a 1 percent sales tax for transportation projects in special transportation districts within the state, benefiting MARTA.



--While serving in the state House in 1999, he was the chief House sponsor of Georgia's Hate Crimes Law.



--He was chief sponsor of legislation to require local governments (including Atlanta) to establish strong ethics policies and independent review boards.



REED’S ONGOING EFFORTS FROM THE MOST RECENT LEGISLATIVE SESSION:



--Sponsored legislation to dedicate 1 mill of property taxes for police/fire salaries & prevent future furloughs, subject to a referendum.



---Sponsored legislation to waive property taxes for Atlanta police and fire officers and teachers who live in Atlanta.



--Sponsored legislation to exempt surviving spouses of officers killed in the line of duty from property taxes.


I added my comment at the end on his 1 Mil legislation as:

I think it's also important to note that Kasim's 1 Mil legislation would have reserved those funds specifically for Public Safety. ie: if we go broke we still have money in the coffers to keep the fire and police running. Currently our funds are still commingled with all the other shortfalls we are facing.

I still think that is a good idea. I've been watching the City Council Meetings for the past year and I haven't heard one good idea or stimulating debate out of Lisa or Mary. I have begged Felicia Moore to enter the race but absent that I continue to believe that come November Kasim is going to get my vote.




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Turner



Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 2103
Location: Atlanta

PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What Costs would you Cut? There are none to cut we are burdened by our Pension obligations and our Cops and Firefighters haven't had a raise in 8 years either. We don't need to cut costs we need to generate revenue.

One way to do that would be to repeal the stupid Marta act that requires 50% of Marta's revenue to go towards capitol improvements. That's hard to do when you aren't allowed to expand beyond Fulton. We need to tax the shit out of Cobb and Marietta for not allowing Marta to go up there and they clog the fucking roads that we have to pay to fix. We need a income tax for people who work in the City and live outside of it so that we can pay for the City Services the 1.5 Million assholes consume every day. Fire, Police Water. New York charges for that shit. All 500,000 of us that live here foot the bill for that too.

There are a million and one ways to generate more money in this city but most of them can ONLY be employed by the State. I'd rather have a candidate that has been rubbing elbows with those guys for the last 11 years then two people who haven't made a dent in this City's problems with 16 years of combined service.

The General Assembly meets at the end of this year, and it's an election year. If we don't get our heads out of our asses with this election we are going to get served to the wolves once again. Atlanta has always been plagued by state legislation. Guess why we never hear about it?

Cause the major contributors for those issues submit and even guest write for the AJC. The only major publication we have in this city.

We gotta Wake the fuck up but maybe we are doomed to sleep through another 8 years.
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VJ



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turner wrote:
What Costs would you Cut? There are none to cut we are burdened by our Pension obligations and our Cops and Firefighters haven't had a raise in 8 years either. We don't need to cut costs we need to generate revenue.


You sure seem hell bent on this. Tell me..is there funding in the city's budget for art? Is there fraud - of the tax, welfare, pension type? You speak as if there is some bottomless bucket to pull revenue from. The people will spend less and more business will flee or close. then you will all want to raise more taxes to give tax credits to people who want to open new businesses...and so on.


There is SO much waste in ALL governments. Please. Unless you think every dollar appropriated (and you have verified this) is for a function of government, you have costs you can cut. You have special interest groups that lobby the city so I can guarantee you there is cost cutting you can do. Don't get me started on privatization of city services (record keeping, property department, garbage) to cut costs..
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Christian Michael



Joined: 18 Mar 2003
Posts: 5136

PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turner wrote:
Disappointed in the vote but how did she vote on the Bar Hours? I am pretty sure that was a unanimous decision.


She wanted the bars to close even earlier - how she voted is irrelevant after that.

Quote:
Establishing a Committee isn't exactly what I was looking for but I applaud the effort.

Revenues, your taxes, have decreased steadily every year since Shirley took office. So much so that the inflation adjusted amount that we are generating from Property taxes, which represent 75% of the general fund, are exactly the same as 2001. <EDIT( Had the council been Fiscally responsible they would have left taxes alone and we would have generated the revenue we need now just to keep the fire department open. See what I'm gettin at)>

However, our population has increased by 25% in the same time frame. That means that our variable expenses, such as Fire, Police, Govt etc have increased by at least that amount.

Tell me how you cover the increase in expenses without either:

A) Raising Taxes

or

B) Generating additional revenue


CUT COSTS!

If the city were to show its budget a little bit better you would see that your "Govt etc." category is the MAJORITY of the expenditures. The city has one of the highest amount of city employees per capita in the nation. It is also has one of the highest costs per kid in the school system with one of the worst results.

The city of Atlanta wastes money in a gross way - and that has nothing to do with our population or the police or fire departments.


Quote:
Nobody wants to pay taxes but you can't have both. You and Mary think exaclty the same, which I understand, but it's not practical or fiscally responsible.


Both?!?!?!

We have a beaurocratic nightmare in city hall. Have you ever had to deal with the Office of Contract Compliance? Have you ever seen how the city bids out jobs?

Quote:
From Stephanie's article:

--As mentioned above, he went to his fellow legislators to acquire $500 million in low interest loans using the State’s AAA bond rating for the City of Atlanta’s water system. That saved the city millions in interest payments.



--He co-authored and passed legislation aimed at code enforcement and cracking down on crime caused by irresponsible bars that function as magnets for crime, increasing penalties for violations, in order to clean up neighborhoods and make the community safer.



--He secured a property tax freeze for low income seniors, cutting seniors’ property taxes and increasing the homestead exemption to $40,000.



--He successfully worked to pass a measure doubling the homestead exemption for all Atlanta homeowners to encourage more home ownership and to help prevent longtime homeowners from being forced out of their homes due to higher property assessments as their neighborhoods improved.



--He sponsored the bill that provided a 1 percent sales tax for transportation projects in special transportation districts within the state, benefiting MARTA.



--While serving in the state House in 1999, he was the chief House sponsor of Georgia's Hate Crimes Law.



--He was chief sponsor of legislation to require local governments (including Atlanta) to establish strong ethics policies and independent review boards.



REED’S ONGOING EFFORTS FROM THE MOST RECENT LEGISLATIVE SESSION:



--Sponsored legislation to dedicate 1 mill of property taxes for police/fire salaries & prevent future furloughs, subject to a referendum.



---Sponsored legislation to waive property taxes for Atlanta police and fire officers and teachers who live in Atlanta.



--Sponsored legislation to exempt surviving spouses of officers killed in the line of duty from property taxes.



Absolutely none of those are an example of fiscal responsibility. Again, I think we are nowhere near the same page when it comes to defining "fiscal responsibility." If I am fiscally responsible as an individual that means I am living within my means. It should be the same for the government. The only difference is that the government is the only entity that can use force to simply increase its "means." I do not advocate simply taking more money because you want to spend more than you can afford. And I certainly do not consider the confiscation of other peoples wealth in order to pay the bills as being fiscally responsible.

Your premise is that every dollar the city spends it absolutely necessary - and I could not disagree more. The city is wrought with waste and mismanagement. When you actually have to deal with the city employees that becomes obvious. The city could accomplish the same tasks it sets out to at a fraction of the cost if it wasn't run as a city jobs program and it had the right management/ leadership.


Quote:
I added my comment at the end on his 1 Mil legislation as:

I think it's also important to note that Kasim's 1 Mil legislation would have reserved those funds specifically for Public Safety. ie: if we go broke we still have money in the coffers to keep the fire and police running. Currently our funds are still commingled with all the other shortfalls we are facing.

I still think that is a good idea. I've been watching the City Council Meetings for the past year and I haven't heard one good idea or stimulating debate out of Lisa or Mary. I have begged Felicia Moore to enter the race but absent that I continue to believe that come November Kasim is going to get my vote.



And I most certainly do not advocate increasing taxes on non-residents to pay for our services.


As for the election, I still am not endorsing anybody. I'm just not going to vote anybody who is so blind they cannot see a system that is clearly broke and understands that fixing the system has to be priority one and not trying to invent more ways to fleece its citizens...
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Turner



Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 2103
Location: Atlanta

PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guyss you can preach to me about government corruption all you want but the topic at hand is which candidate of the options we have would you choose.

The mayor will have zero impact on the taxes you pay for education.

We do not have more employees per capita than cities of similar size. Maybe if you include Fulton county but the mayor got nothin to do with that. Please post articles.

75 % of the city of Atlanta taxes you pay go to public safety. The rest goes to watershed management which could be cut significantly but only if the state meets its obligation to pay their fukin bills. You will find little else to work with
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back the fuck up dan.
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Static



Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Posts: 213
Location: Midtown/O4W

PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turner wrote:
Static why don't you offer some insight as to why you would choose one candidate over another. I chose my broadest opinions to keep the reader interested as I tend to be verbose. I ASSURE you I can expound on any opinion you take issue with as long as you are a participant in that discussion. You admit yourself that you didn't read the articles I posted where I also register fact and opinion so I can only assume you don't know a thing about any of the candidates.

Here is an assignment for you.

Name one piece of legislation that Lisa has introduced or backed in her 8 years as Council President. Do the same for Mary.

And Christian Michael can you tell me what Mary's plan was to cover the 58 Million dollar short fall we had prior to passing the 2010 budget that did not include a tax hike?

I'll save you some time and let you know she didn't have one but voted against the increase anyway. She is a HORRIBLE public speaker and only touts fiscal policy cause she has somebody else prepare her plans on paper and she submits her homework that way. She hasn't had a single interview, or quote, that answered anything remotely resembling accounting or finance. She always wants to go back to the office (daddy) and get an answer. Fuck that.

Saint name a reputable publication in the Metro Atlanta. Here is a hint: It's not the AJC. I BEG you to argue differently. I'm not even here to argue people. Do some homework and lets talk about this.


Dear Turner,

I had no idea that you had words like expound or verbose in your vocabulary. Had I known, I would have never challenged you (certainly not in a public place) on your incredibly eloquent ramblings above. Since my initial response, I have learned many things from you. For instance, you believe that the AJC's writing staff cannot hold a flame to the utter brilliance that is The Sunday Paper. It makes me think of each and every time I chose to stare at a wall during brunch instead of attempting to learn about whatever globally important issue The Sunday Paper had addressed that week, and wince in anguish. Sure, The Sunday Paper is always the last paper available in the city right before new issues are released. But that is most likely because people just can't handle the riveting news and stellar writing that goes into each and every issue. I mean, c'mon! Now that my eyes have been opened, I would like to apologize to you and The Sunday Paper. The next time I am at brunch and The Sunday Paper is the only thing left (yes, I am including apartment finder), I am going to try to read it.

Also, vote for Kasim Reed!

You know, because he has opinions and stuff!

static
pc
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Turner



Joined: 30 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice work Static.

F on the assignment.

Please pick your favorite AJC article on the election. If not the AJC pick any periodical that you feel is worthy or more informative than what I have provided here.

Please refute ONE thing in ANY Sunday Paper article of your choosing.

Please rely on something other than your sarcasm to carry you through the next stage.

Feel free to use a big word or two.

Your comments and input have offered no information to the group other than your opinion that I am wrong because you say so. Twice.

If you are going to open your mouth why don't you participate? Thanks for the bump.
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back the fuck up dan.
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m@



Joined: 18 Jul 2005
Posts: 646

PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

can someone post a list of all the candidates and a website to go along with it.

it seems as if i'm having to choose between horse shit and cow dung.

as far as the police, lay them all off who can offer nothing more to the city than parking and speeding tickets. i don't give a SHIT if someone is driving 45 in a 35. i do care if an entire neighborhood is littered with safety glass.

this has nothing to do with the mayoral election (just as 2/3 pages of this thread do). i live in an area that was severely hit by the floods earlier this week. i live about 200 yards from peachtree creek if that gives you an idea. many people lost their homes and, needless to say, parking has been a clusterfuck. some jerk-off police officer decided to write tickets to all of the cars parking on the opposite side of the street. most parking is one side of the street but due to the natural disaster, we've had to improvise this week. i called the police precinct this morning and the officer told me i would have to resort to "alternate methods". MORONS. should we park ON peachtree street?

officer 0128, FUCK you.
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Christian Michael



Joined: 18 Mar 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turner wrote:
Guyss you can preach to me about government corruption all you want but the topic at hand is which candidate of the options we have would you choose.

The mayor will have zero impact on the taxes you pay for education.

We do not have more employees per capita than cities of similar size. Maybe if you include Fulton county but the mayor got nothin to do with that. Please post articles.

75 % of the city of Atlanta taxes you pay go to public safety. The rest goes to watershed management which could be cut significantly but only if the state meets its obligation to pay their fukin bills. You will find little else to work with


I'm going to pick the condidate that is less likely to increase the corruption in city hall and more likely to descrease it.

Tell me, which category (public safety or watershed) do these offices fall under?

> Office of Communications
> Office of Constituent Services
> Office of Contract Compliance
> Office of External Affairs & International Relations
> Office of Human Services
> Office of Program Management
> Office of Special Events
> Office of Sustainability
> Office of Weed & Seed

They are all part of the mayor's office...

How about these?

> Aviation
> Finance
> Human Resources
> Information Technology
> Parks, Recreation & Cultural Affairs
> Planning & Community Development
> Procurement
> Public Works
> Garbage and Waste Collection


If I have time later I will research the data on city employees. I had read somewhere a couple years ago that the number of city employees was increasing something like three times the rate of the population growth.

I know you are active in local politics and you do attend city council meetings and I commend that in the highest terms. But you are really missing something if you think the city only spends money on watershed management and public safety. Furthermore, the department of watershed management is currently well funded (and recieves federal money). However, it is bloated itself. It just had an audit showing how poorly it has been managed - and the department head just off-handedly said the audit was wrong. Watershed Management is chocked full of cronyism and its very title is Orwellian at its best.


BTW, job-seekers, even in this economic climate, the city is hiring! All with great salaries and amazing benefits. If you are looking for job, please do not hesitate to hit our best jobs program! Here are the categories:

Accounting and Finance (2) Administration (1) Corrections (2)
Electronics (1) Emergency Management (1) Engineering (1)
Fire & EMS (1) IT and Computers (2) Maintenance (1)
Management (2) Miscellaneous (2) Professional (1)
Public Works (1) Risk Management (1) Safety (1)
Training (1) Transportation (1) Waste Management (1)
Wastewater (8 ) Water Agency (9) Water Treatment (4)


Oh, and I put the Sunday Paper right inbetween the AJC and Creative Loafing, in that I don't trust any of them. I just browsed thier site and I could not find a single OBJECTIVE article. Atlanta has no real newspaper. Just because the opinions expressed by one particular paper mirror your own does not mean it is any better than the rest. It just means you agree with it.

I'll take the Atlanta Business Chronicle over all three of them any day of the week.
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Christian Michael



Joined: 18 Mar 2003
Posts: 5136

PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think we will find any better than:



VOTE QUIMBY!
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canuckgirl1



Joined: 13 Feb 2004
Posts: 645

PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Asm0deus wrote:
Static wrote:
Wow Turner. I've never been a fan... But making blanket statements about politicians without doing any homework at all, is beneath even you. Ehh, perhaps it's not.

Saying that Lisa Borders is the "everything is fine" candidate... really?

Saying that Kasim Reed is better than the other two candidates because he has an opinion... You should take a look at what his opinion is on increasing revenue to pay for all the new police officers he is promising. It is nothing short of hilarious, seriously read up!

Didn't bother reading much past that...

edit:

OMG!!! And the articles you are quoting are from the Sunday Paper!! Anyone that has read a single article from that publication knows they have no business reviewing movies let alone writing on politics.


Regardless of Turner's post...

If she was presiding over City Council during the critical 2004 "killed Atlanta's late-night-life" era (which she was), then to Hell with her. I'll take an "anyone but her" position first, then consider the alternatives second.
Yep, as soon as Mayor Franklin came with a her "bust the nightlife campaign", Atlanta has been dying of a slow death (as far as I am concerned). If I could vote, I would vote for anyone that was not on that council
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jkfunkee___



Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 5788

PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Christian Michael wrote:

BTW, job-seekers, even in this economic climate, the city is hiring! All with great salaries and amazing benefits. If you are looking for job, please do not hesitate to hit our best jobs program! Here are the categories:

Accounting and Finance (2) Administration (1) Corrections (2)
Electronics (1) Emergency Management (1) Engineering (1)
Fire & EMS (1) IT and Computers (2) Maintenance (1)
Management (2) Miscellaneous (2) Professional (1)
Public Works (1) Risk Management (1) Safety (1)
Training (1) Transportation (1) Waste Management (1)
Wastewater (8 ) Water Agency (9) Water Treatment (4)


not for nothing, but again race plays a factor in these job hirings as well. atlanta area government (federal, state, city, county, dekalb, ITP, etc) is almost exclusively made up of blacks, which i would attest to nepotism as most of our local officials are black. its truly one of the few places (atl) where i myself being a white male have experienced racism (fkd up mang) but at the same totally understandable. as i said in my first post here: its time for a change to the politics of hope!
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MCB



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

m@ wrote:


this has nothing to do with the mayoral election (just as 2/3 pages of this thread do). i live in an area that was severely hit by the floods earlier this week. i live about 200 yards from peachtree creek if that gives you an idea. many people lost their homes and, needless to say, parking has been a clusterfuck. some jerk-off police officer decided to write tickets to all of the cars parking on the opposite side of the street. most parking is one side of the street but due to the natural disaster, we've had to improvise this week. i called the police precinct this morning and the officer told me i would have to resort to "alternate methods". MORONS. should we park ON peachtree street?

officer 0128, FUCK you.


wow that is so crazy!! YOu should report this to a TV stations news or something and get it some publicity. Maybe one of the mayor candiates could step in and help Smile

I actually find this debate entertaining and mildly educational.
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simenau



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCB wrote:

I actually find this debate entertaining and mildly educational.



Hey, can somebody update the title
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