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The Second Act: A Public Plan
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transponder



Joined: 18 Mar 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:22 am    Post subject: The Second Act: A Public Plan Reply with quote

I am busy digesting the Top 10 myths about health care according to conservatives.

Post at your own leisure.

The June 23rd Press Conference was a sight to be heard. If only this website possessed post-2001 capabilities, we could all be watching YouTube vids and engaging in heated discussion.
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djy



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't care about any conservative myths.

Just tell me what the govt. is good at administrating?
And why it would be good at administrating health care?

Our system is broken, but we need to move towards a solution that works, not one that will screw things up even more.

My guess is, the Democrats themselves will not go for it.
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jbrady



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bradley Blakeman, a republican strategist, posted this gem on a Politico blog.

"If you like going to the Department of Motor Vehicles, then you are going to love the public health care option. Americans will wait in large caverness waiting rooms to see doctors they don’t know and then be told they can’t be treated because of their age, wait time for treatment, cost, etc. Under Obama Socialized Health Care everyone will be “covered” but no one will be properly treated."

Something has to happen. We can't stay on the current path. I don't want my employer to end up dropping the coverage I enjoy right now for some cheaper coverage that will take me away from the doctor. But, what if this public option forces the private coverage lower. Which is more likely to happen? I understand doctors have to get paid. I understand that health care is a business. But, health care has bankrupted families across the country...families that have coverage, but just not enough. Lots of issues to hash out.
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jkfunkee___



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

djy wrote:

Just tell me what the govt. is good at administrating?


making war, wasting money.
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djy



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jkfunkee___ wrote:
djy wrote:

Just tell me what the govt. is good at administrating?


making war, wasting money.


can't argue with that...
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transponder



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jbrady wrote:
"then be told they can’t be treated because of their age, wait time for treatment, cost, etc. Under Obama Socialized Health Care everyone will be “covered” but no one will be properly treated."


I love these arguments from "strategists" because basically they're describing what's already happening. The difference being the private insurance carrier or the HMO is dropping the ball on coverage rather than the government at this point right?

I don't see a lot of difference to be honest but I'll make no bones about being almost completely ignorant when it comes to dealing with the health care system.
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transponder



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jbrady wrote:
I don't want my employer to end up dropping the coverage I enjoy right now for some cheaper coverage that will take me away from the doctor.


I know a few friends whose employers have already "downgraded" coverage by signing up for cheaper programs within the past two years.

And that's what Obama is banging the table on. Cost is going up. More employers likely to dump benefits. Individuals can't afford coverage on their own. What are we to do?


The people who lick the nuts of FOXNEWS want to declare that everything is Socialist but what they don't see is the writing on the wall. I wonder how happy they'll be when their employers start completely dumping coverage if what Obama is predicting about costs should come true in the coming years? Or is it just a scare tactic to rush some Democratic authored legislation through the ringer?
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transponder



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jkfunkee___ wrote:
djy wrote:

Just tell me what the govt. is good at administrating?


making war, wasting money.



funny. the "reconstruction" of Iraq that threw our budget into a swirling toilet seems like it was largely run by private corporations. but seriously, let's not digress.
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transponder



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

djy wrote:
And why would [govt] be good at administrating health care?


Like I responded to jbrady, I don't think it's a question of being good or not. It's a question of whether or not Obama is correct in asserting that more employers are going to dump benefits because of costs.
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Jason G



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Employers ARE already dumping or reducing coverage, their prices are going up like crazy, and they're charging their employees more for coverage.

When I was looking for a job recently, I was pretty surprised to find how much of my "salary" had to go towards insurance. It was always a small amount at my past jobs, less than $100 a month. Not anymore. Plus, since employers are paying much higher heath care costs, they're offering less salary and making hay out of it. Lots of potential employers played this up to me, way more than they used to. They actually justified their lower salary offers by saying that health insurance was eating a much larger chunk of money.
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transponder



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting.


So I watched "PRESCRIPTION FOR AMERICA" in it's entirety last night. You can find it on ABC News. I recommend that all participants in this thread should at least watch it once to bring yourself up to speed with what's going on instead of resorting to "but the government can't do anything right" apathy. All this fear over "government control" but the fact is the guys making the rules right now are already "rationing" care to an extent. It's pretty obvious how the "free market" is leaving a lot of people without the help they need because of the way doctors get paid in the current system. We're operating in a quantity over quality environment already. How does government intervention in flawed policy make it any worse??

I laugh in the face of the punditry that claimed "Oh but ABC didn't provide any rebuttal of Obama's ideas!!!" Yeah right. The CEO of Aetna was right there in the room and all over the media last week as the spokesperson for the insurers. He's been afforded every chance in the world to defend the operations of the health insurers but it seems like all he can do is stand there and admit the company he runs is part of the problem. At least those are the signals I am interpreting.
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Jason G



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the heads up, I am going to try and watch that very soon.

As for the rationing of health care -- yes it will be rationed in the future, and yes, it is rationed now. In the future, it may be rationed by needs. Right now, it's absolutely rationed based on MONEY (basically, better insurance). The more you have, the more access you have to good health care.

What many people who don't want any health care reform refuse to say is: they want a system that's rationed based on money. Of course they do, they're on top of the pyramid. They think someone on welfare isn't as deserving of an organ transplant as, say, an employed, upstanding citizen such as themselves.
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transponder



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jason G wrote:
Thanks for the heads up, I am going to try and watch that very soon.

As for the rationing of health care -- yes it will be rationed in the future, and yes, it is rationed now. In the future, it may be rationed by needs. Right now, it's absolutely rationed based on MONEY (basically, better insurance). The more you have, the more access you have to good health care.


[comes down aisle with the airline cart]

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columns/OpEd-Contributor/Obamacare-failed-in-Europe-7900839-49458267.html

What this entire theatre boils down to is the allocation of the government's own subsidies.

All I'm saying is doesn't the government have a right to allocate where they put their own charity in the first place??


Quote:
What many people who don't want any health care reform refuse to say is: they want a system that's rationed based on money. Of course they do, they're on top of the pyramid. They think someone on welfare isn't as deserving of an organ transplant as, say, an employed, upstanding citizen such as themselves.


You may also enjoy this:

Quote:

POSTED Jul 2, 2009
Frank Griffin: "Every other country in the world has failed at this but Obama thinks he is special so it will somehow work for him. Also why redo the entire system to fix a problem that only involves 10% of the population where many of them are illegal aliens even and should not be covered."



BECAUSE THAT 10% IS LIKELY SET TO DOUBLE IN LESS THAN 10 YEARS HOMER.

uh oh lets let the truth come forth regarding the integrity of this opinion piece.
vvv

POSTED Jul 2, 2009
Margaret: "As someone who lives in the UK and uses the NHS I don't recognise it from this article! It's not true that people don't have any choice over who they see or where they are treated. In addition I would be amazed if I now had to wait 8.6 weeks for treatment. Waits in A&E (Casualty) are now required to be less than 4 hours. I know if I am ill I don't have to worry about having money to pay the doctor or the hospital, and as has been pointed our expenditure on health is far less in UK compared to US when GDP is taken into account."


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djy



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

transponder wrote:
jkfunkee___ wrote:
djy wrote:

Just tell me what the govt. is good at administrating?


making war, wasting money.



funny. the "reconstruction" of Iraq that threw our budget into a swirling toilet seems like it was largely run by private corporations. but seriously, let's not digress.


So, the Iraq war was administered by private companies and not our government bureaucracy?

Rolling Eyes
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djy



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

transponder wrote:



All this fear over "government control" but the fact is the guys making the rules right now are already "rationing" care to an extent. It's pretty obvious how the "free market" is leaving a lot of people without the help they need because of the way doctors get paid in the current system.



The health care system in this country is not a "free market". How often do you go to the doctor and have any reasonable idea what the treatment is going to cost?

Also, I don't have a fear of government control, I have a fear of government incompetence.

If the government has trouble administering even something as relatively simple as delivering mail, why would they succeed at providing health care?

transponder wrote:

I laugh in the face of the punditry that claimed "Oh but ABC didn't provide any rebuttal of Obama's ideas!!!" Yeah right. The CEO of Aetna was right there in the room and all over the media last week as the spokesperson for the insurers. He's been afforded every chance in the world to defend the operations of the health insurers but it seems like all he can do is stand there and admit the company he runs is part of the problem. At least those are the signals I am interpreting.


1. Insurers are part of the problem
2. Aetna is not Obama's opposition.
3. Do you think he is so dumb as to actually raise his voice openly against someone who may be controlling him in the near future? Rolling Eyes


P.S. it is interesting that tort reform has been missing as a factor from this debate.
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