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Tax POV

 
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yossarian



Joined: 19 Mar 2003
Posts: 4165
Location: I'm somewhere where I don't know where I am.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:19 pm    Post subject: Tax POV Reply with quote

Two interesting quotes I've stumbled across regarding taxes recently.

Elizabeth Warren wrote:
There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own. Nobody. You built a factory out there? Good for you, but I want to be clear: you moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for; you hired workers the rest of us paid to educate; you were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn't have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory, and hire someone to protect against this, because of the work the rest of us did.

Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea? God bless. Keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.


Mark Cuban wrote:
The Most Patriotic Thing You Can Do
Sep 19th 2011 12:25PM

Bust your ass and get rich.

Make a boatload of money. Pay your taxes. Lots of taxes. Hire people. Train people. Pay people. Spend money on rent, equipment, services. Pay more taxes.

When you make a shitload of money. Do something positive with it. If you are smart enough to make it, you will be smart enough to know where to put it to work.

I don’t care what anyone says. Being rich is a good thing. Not just in the obvious sense of benefiting you and your family, but in the broader sense. Profits are not a zero sum game. The more you make the more of a financial impact you can have.

I’m not against government involvement in times of need. I am for recognizing that big public companies will continue to cut jobs in an effort to prop up stock prices, which in turn stimulates the need for more government involvement. Every cut job by the big companies extracts a cost on the American people in one way or another.

Entrepreneurs are needed to create and grow companies to absorb those people in new jobs. If entrepreneurs don’t create those jobs, the government ends up having to spend more money to help them one way or another.

So be Patriotic. Go out there and get rich. Get so obnoxiously rich that when that tax bill comes , your first thought will be to choke on how big a check you have to write. Your 2nd thought will be “what a great problem to have”, and your 3rd should be a recognition that in paying your taxes you are helping to support millions of Americans that are not as fortunate as you.

In these times of “The Great Recession” we shouldn’t be trying to shift the benefits of wealth behind some curtain. We should be celebrating and encouraging people to make as much money as they can. Profits equal tax money. While some people might find it distasteful to pay taxes. I don’t. I find it Patriotic.

I’m not saying that the government’s use of tax money is the most efficient use of our hard-earned capital. It obviously is not. In a perfect world, there would be a better option. We don’t live in a perfect world. We don’t live in a perfect time. We live in a time where the government plays a big role in an effort to help lead us out this Great Recession. That’s reality.

So I will repeat my point. Get out there and make a boatload of money. Enjoy the shit out your money. Pay your taxes.

It’s the most Patriotic thing you can do.
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VJ



Joined: 18 Oct 2004
Posts: 5898
Location: Easside..

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see Warren is championing this new phrase of 'pay forward'?

They are interesting points of view. Warren leaves out the fact that much of the tax money collected doesnt pay anything forward. It doesn't go to make anything better for any future generation. As for the roads, workers who were educated, and police comments she made, it's so pedestrian. It'll resonate with the uninformed who don't know where the majority of services come from (i.e. local tax base). I tend to tune out anyone actively seeking office in the federal government anyway Razz

Naturally, I like Cuban's idea better. It's also very hard to convince the uninformed and the uneducated that money is not a zero sum game. I know some very smart people who don't understand this either. It is not true at all that you must rob peter to pay paul. This is all a big distraction in my mind anyway. Focusing the populace on who is rich and who is paying how much takes the eyes off the looters who are largely responsible for the problems we face as is. It's ok to include some hotshot bankers and thieves in that looter class with politicians, but don't you fucking dare include any of us who want to be multimillionaires and wouldn't steal from anyone to get there.
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yossarian



Joined: 19 Mar 2003
Posts: 4165
Location: I'm somewhere where I don't know where I am.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Over all, I find the no new taxes rhetoric pretty empty. The idea that we could solve the debt through just spending cuts seems highly unlikely (not to mention what the economic impact of those spending cuts would be, we'll just ignore those, like all the politicians).

As you pointed out, Warren has greatly oversimplified, but I appreciate the essence of it. It's like the people who got hurt protesting Obama's health care policy and then went and used their medicare / aid. There's a huge disconnect between talking points and reality.
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Jason G



Joined: 30 Jun 2004
Posts: 1934
Location: Robotrippin'

PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

VJ wrote:
Warren leaves out the fact that much of the tax money collected doesnt pay anything forward. It doesn't go to make anything better for any future generation. As for the roads, workers who were educated, and police comments she made, it's so pedestrian.

VJ, you're always on this particular tip. Just because "much of the tax money collected" doesn't go towards things you value, or that money is wasted in your eyes, doesn't mean you can throw up your arms and give up. What's the alternative?

Shit has to get paid for. Should we waste less? Yes. But spending cuts alone won't solve our problems, and the magical growth fairy is gone. We need to get real.
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Mr Sweet



Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 1587

PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't like that my tax dollars go towards war, but in the end we're still responsible for the choices our Representatives make.
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