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Yay Or Nay? The Truth About Canada!

 
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jkfunkee___



Joined: 17 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:46 am    Post subject: Yay Or Nay? The Truth About Canada! Reply with quote

www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2jijuj1ysw
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spunkie



Joined: 20 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can make this same bias video in the USA today... and the arguments are shit. It is nothing more than sensationalism - just like Michael Moore.

I would advise you don't let PJ TV tell you what to think. (Same goes for Fox News and CNN.) We still have the power of free thought in this country. Use it sometime. Wink
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jkfunkee___



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this has no basis in fact?
no anecdotal value?
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spunkie



Joined: 20 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure it has some basis in reality, but that doesn't change the fact that it's sensationalism. I really wish people could just report the news without trying to tell us how to think. CNN and Fox News have gotten horrible.
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djy



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spunkie wrote:
I'm sure it has some basis in reality, but that doesn't change the fact that it's sensationalism. I really wish people could just report the news without trying to tell us how to think. CNN and Fox News have gotten horrible.


I'm beginning to think it may be impossible to get unbiased news reports. I have no problem with the editorial being opinionated, but opinionated reporting turns me off. Confused
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spunkie



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

djy wrote:
I'm beginning to think it may be impossible to get unbiased news reports. I have no problem with the editorial being opinionated, but opinionated reporting turns me off. Confused


I am right there with you. I have noticed more and more lately how articles are being written to tell you *what* to think about a particular subject. What happened to just presenting the facts?
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spunkie



Joined: 20 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jkfunkee___ wrote:
this has no basis in fact?
no anecdotal value?


This 17 year old girl seems to be the new poster child for what is wrong with private insurance:
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/CancerPreventionAndTreatment/story?id=4038257&page=1

So like I was saying before - I could make the same slanted video here in the US. The fact is no giant bureaucratic system (public or private) is going to work without a bunch of outrageous stories.

IMO the main problem with the healthcare system in this country is the insurance companies are for-profit businesses. By default this model tends to lean towards denial. Profit margins are more important than your health... even after you pay skyrocketing prices.

Additionally, doctors, hospitals, etc. attempt to maximize their profits by setting their prices above what the insurance companies will pay. This ensures they get every penny possible out of the insurance companies. Ever wonder why one rubber glove costs $10?

It is a broken system. It needs to be fixed. There is no doubt about that. Is making it public the best route? I don't know. In most Western countries you have an option of both private and public, but I'm sure they are also full of outrageous stories. I would like to hear other people's ideas...
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jkfunkee___



Joined: 17 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

as i've said before on here in regards to both healthcare & education here in the U.S.: once the feds got involved in S.S./medicare & dept of education got involved in the business of financing education, the costs in relation to the rate of inflation are astronomical.
when it comes to the question of healthcare & education: are these rights? if so, how and who is to pay? everyone wants to take about change & mandates and whatnot, but no one wants to pay for anything.
imo, the solution is easy: let the states decide for themselves.
the purpose of the federal system is to dictate where state law is unable, not to be a duplicitous suck-hole for monies collected from those same states.
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djy



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The current system is broken.

But the solutions currently being proposed don't put any responsibility on the people receiving the benefits.

Plus, once you initiate a government bureaucracy, it is next to impossible to curtail it (see soc. sec./medicaid/medicare).

Additionally, the CBO has come out against it, projecting that it will fail to achieve it's major objectives

Finally, what previous experience can satisfy us that the government will be running this better than the private sector?

The two of the better systems I'm familiar with in Europe require all working people to participate at some level in the health care system.

In Holland you have a choice of three different plans at three different prices, run by competing insurance companies, that provide different levels of care. Everyone pays a basic amount, and can then upgrade to better plans if they so wish.
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spunkie



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is one other thing to consider from the World Health Organization:

http://www.who.int/whr/2000/media_centre/press_release/en/index.html

WHO wrote:
The U.S. health system spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product than any other country but ranks 37 out of 191 countries according to its performance, the report finds. The United Kingdom, which spends just six percent of GDP on health services, ranks 18th.


This is not only proof that our costs are out of control (the largest portion of the GDP being spent on healthcare), but it also shows that our system is not working. I personally feel the free market has failed in this area.

djy wrote:
Finally, what previous experience can satisfy us that the government will be running this better than the private sector?


Does this observation from WHO at least show that the public systems in OTHER countries are doing a good job? That doesn't mean it will be run well in the USA. However, when something is broken you fixed it. You don't just keep going. The only option on the table right now is to get the govrnment involved - at a Federal or state level. If there was a real way to fix the private system without the government I'm sure it would have been done, but the profit-margin part of the formula needs to go away.

jkfunkee___ wrote:
when it comes to the question of healthcare & education: are these rights? if so, how and who is to pay?


Rights or not both healthcare and education are essential building blocks of society. It is the best interest of the country to have educated and healthy citizens.

I believe we need to start at the very bottom by re-evaluating our overall lifestyles. As an example, a recent study showed Northerners tended to be healthier than Southerners because they use public transportation. Walking to and from the train station every day is physical activity, so while the diets of those studied contained the same number of calories Southerners were fatter.

The City of Atlanta recognizes this trend and is trying to create walkable neighborhoods and better public transportation, but stupid politicians (that usually are Republican - sorry guys) prefer to fund road projects over public transportation. Almost every road you drive on is paid for with public money - construction, maintenance, etc, so why does public transportation in Atlanta not get any money from the state of Georgia? It makes no sense. The only conclusion that can be drawn is that the people running this state are idiots.

Sorry for going off on a tangent, but I think it is all connected.
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djy



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="spunkie"]Here is one other thing to consider from the World Health Organization:

http://www.who.int/whr/2000/media_centre/press_release/en/index.html

WHO wrote:
The U.S. health system spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product than any other country but ranks 37 out of 191 countries according to its performance, the report finds. The United Kingdom, which spends just six percent of GDP on health services, ranks 18th.


Do you know how they were rated?

Some of the criteria seemed a little fuzzy. I have a hard time accepting a report when it uses criteria like "fairness" (how do you measure that?).

BTW, we have Medicare and Medicaid as prime examples of U.S. government run health care.

I agree the system is flawed, but we will end up with a much worse situation with this specific reform.
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transponder



Joined: 18 Mar 2003
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Location: Erotic City

PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe Canada exists off the table scraps from the U.S. so I think it's an extremely weak comparison to America in the healthcare debate.

This was an informative video nonetheless, but I think Canada's situation has more to do with the fact the U.S. owns all the (expensive) technology the Canadian government either can't afford or won't bother to pay for due to inefficiency.
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canuckgirl1



Joined: 13 Feb 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

djy wrote:
spunkie wrote:
I'm sure it has some basis in reality, but that doesn't change the fact that it's sensationalism. I really wish people could just report the news without trying to tell us how to think. CNN and Fox News have gotten horrible.


I'm beginning to think it may be impossible to get unbiased news reports. I have no problem with the editorial being opinionated, but opinionated reporting turns me off. Confused
Amen brother.
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canuckgirl1



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 1:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Yay Or Nay? The Truth About Canada! Reply with quote

jkfunkee___ wrote:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2jijuj1ysw
Rolling Eyes
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whytopersist



Joined: 06 Sep 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like this forum.By the way,I am a newer here.

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